How Preventive Maintenance Makes Hidden Risks Visible

Pete Miller [00:38] Welcome to the podcast! Today I’m joined by Jon DeWald, Founder and CEO of Helix Intel.

A lifelong entrepreneur on his fifth startup, John has spent his career at the intersection of property maintenance, technology, and risk. At Helix Intel, he is on a mission to help property owners track assets, automate preventive maintenance and prevent costly breakdowns.

The platform bridges the gap between those who maintain physical properties and the insurance companies that protect them. Jon says that the problem of deferred maintenance represents an enormous problem that creates compounding, often invisible risk — which  correlates directly to insurance claims.

John shares why Helix Intel chose to deliver his risk prevention system through the insurance ecosystem rather than directly to property owners. And he describes how a looming “silver tsunami” of retiring maintenance workers could reshape property risk forever, accelerating reliance on digital systems and sensors to fill the gaps.

Pete Miller [01:47]: John, can you start by telling us about your background and observations that led to the founding of Helix Intel?

Jon DeWald [01:53]: Yeah, absolutely. Not a problem, Pete. So, you know, my background is really pretty much been a lifelong entrepreneur. I started my first company when I was a freshman in college, right after doing a couple of tours in the Marine Corps. and and so, you know, that experience of building companies, both in the prop tech, in the clean tech space, as well as operations and maintenance, equipment distribution, have really led me to the kind of ecosystem that we’ve been building out now.

And along my journey, one of the biggest drivers that I’ve seen in the building maintenance management technology space was that, you know, the costs, the failures that we constantly saw, the inefficiencies that were happening at properties itself, those were generally not a result of the of the people itself, the maintenance teams. It was really comes down to the lack of resources or support that they were given.

And so more often than not, they were always trying to figure out how they could do, you know, the common old more with with less, right. But in the maintenance industry, that is, you know, that is really a truism. And so what I was trying to do was set out to solve that problem around, you know, how can I provide more resources and more support to this industry that I that I care deeply about. and I kind of was set out on this journey.

I definitely initially had a plan around working with OEMs and various third parties, but was introduced to the insurance base about four or four and a half years ago. And it became so apparent to me when I learned about what what was happening there, the fact that we were both trying to prevent the same problems and you know, the thing that while it’s so self-evident now, back then it wasn’t, that the incentive and the alignment is so incredible between you know both an insurer and a property, that the you know both both entities working to have operational efficiency, execution, right? reduce risk, we’re all working to do those same things, but maybe in two different paths.

And so when I learned of the similarities and what we’re all trying to accomplish, and then at the same time hearing what was predict and prevent, right? The idea of identifying claims before they, before they happen and insurers working to you know to invest proactively. It was just a moment where everything came together. And from that, we came out Helix Intel, you know, where we’re really trying to bring the two worlds together where they can collaborate and proactively manage facilities and reduce risk together.

Pete Miller [04:24]: So you’ve identified the property asset class, which are from what I’ve read is worth over $400 trillion globally, as one of the last major sectors that seems to be largely untouched by digital transformation. So, when you look at how maintenance is being done with spreadsheets and sticky notes, what does that tell you about the scale of risk that we’re dealing with?

Jon DeWald [04:46]: Well, I’ll tell you, when you see spreadsheets and sticky notes managing trillions of dollars of assets, it’s definitely telling you we have a massive problem here. you know, that’s for certain. And honestly, 60 to 70 percent of properties globally are still operating on pen and paper. And so with most decisions being made without real-time data verification or accountability, you know, there’s just a tremendous gap here. And even when there is software that exists, there’s still just this massive disconnect between the finance and and the operations teams and the maintenance folks who are actually executing on them.

And where you see that that gap, that’s where essentially we call this deferred maintenance problem starts to come into play, right? Because when you don’t have the right information, you can’t take action. And when you can’t take action, things just fester and they get worse and worse. And you kick that can down the road. And so when things aren’t getting done, when things are getting ignored, what we’ve learned is there’s a direct correlation between deferred maintenance, right, and claims one-to-one. And and right now, this is a massive, it’s a global problem. But if you were to kind of look at it in the United States, we’re right around nine trillion in deferred maintenance. I’ve seen statistics of between seventy-five and a hundred trillion globally. So obviously just massive numbers that are compounding. but it’s happening everywhere, right?

And, you know, I try to always like correlate things to stories to make them real for folks. And when you think about like replacing a roof, right? And it’s like, all right, do I wait and hope insurance covers it, maybe? Right. Or do I do I deal with it now? And the problem for that roof, as it is for all things that are maintenance, is what is the ROI, right? And what is the value? What’s the reason that me as the owner, the finance manager, whomever it is, is going to invest to have that thing happen. And so when you kick it down the road, not only does that cost money today, right, with more maintenance problems, you’re or eventually going to have higher premiums. And so these things lead to to dangerous, you know, dangerous problems, not only at a property, but then compounding risk, which results in in tremendous cost for everyone. And when you have the risk that is known or even unknown, right, we call it that invisible risk that’s there, that’s when risk turns into real losses.

Pete Miller [07:05]: Yeah, I’ve been several places in the world where it’s clear there’s deferred maintenance, John.

Jon DeWald [07:09]: I believe it.

Pete Miller [07:11]: You chose to deliver you chose to deliver your system through like an insurance ecosystem. You talked about this a little bit rather than directly to property owners. So can you just sort of drill in on that? Why did you choose that route?

Jon DeWald [-7:22]: Yeah, I mean, we made the deliberate decision to go through the insurance space because they are truly the only stakeholder that’s financially aligned with the policy holder to prevent losses at scale. And, you know, I promise you, I know this space extremely well. I literally had a distribution for a major OEM that I ran, you know, construction, energy services, maintenance. And this alignment here is just uncanny. And so property owners are truly busy, running the day-to-day, right? Their primary focus is, you know, if they could be a property owner, you could be the company who owns that property, right, is driving revenues itself, which means that maintenance teams are typically under-resourced. but insurers, they sit across and looking at thousands or millions of properties, right? And they directly absorb the costs of failure. And so what we saw was hey, instead of selling software to one building at a time, which is pretty much how all services to properties have been done, right? We had an opportunity here to sell at scale to thousands and millions of policyholders in a way that is not only providing value to them, but providing substantial value, obviously, to the insurance company themselves in reducing risk. And so when the insurer is the only entity with both the financial incentive and the distribution to drive real chains, for us, that’s how you really get adoption at scale. And that allows us to do, I think, some truly, you know, incredible things, not only at a local, but looking at it from, you know, looking from it at scale. And I, you know, in the four years that I’ve, you know, started to come up in the insurance space, I’ve learned how brokers think and carriers and pools and programs and reinsurers. And each one of them has a different approach and obviously a different incentive. But at the end of the day, they’re all completely aligned around how do we make this a better risk, right? So that there’s value to all of the insurance ecosystem, but there’s value obviously to the policy holder, because when you’re a better risk, there’s less costs that come your way.

Pete Miller [09:26]: So I looked on your website and it looks like your platform kinda has two sides, right? One for insurers and one for maintenance management teams, so can you just walk us through how that platform works?

Jon DeWald [09:37]: Yeah. So think of Helix Intel as two systems from a software perspective. Now, our mission is definitely to deliver on this predict and prevent. We think of ourselves as that implementation layer, but ultimately you have two platforms. So on Helix Prevent, that is the intelligence layer for proactive risk management that insurance companies work and live in. And we’re pulling in real-time data from properties, which has this is truly the missing layer, right? It’s the operational data that happens day to day,  and pulling that into the insurance ecosystem, connecting it into their core platform data that identifies where risk exists, what kind of exposures they’re looking at, what actions need to happen, and whether there’s an opportunity to prevent a loss or resolve one from even happening or resolve it from happening quickly, right? Because the longer, the longer a loss happens, the more expensive it gets. And so on one side, you’re looking at an incredible ability for those insurers to work and live and prevent and see real-time intelligence that that just hasn’t been there.

And then on the other side, we have what we call Helix CMMS. And this is the operating software for the properties themselves. And when you think of an operating software, think of work orders, right? preventive maintenance, inspections, asset management, fleet management, right, room reservations. There’s all sorts of different tools that a facility uses in verticals, you could be manufacturing, you could be educational, farming, right? fleet management. They all have different needs, but eventually or ultimately, I’d say, they all have some sort of platform that they work in. And so what’s important is that these tools are often now subsidized by the insurance company. And what we’ve seen is why you see a you know 60 to 70 percent pen and paper or Excel. It’s not that they don’t want it. It’s just that these things have typically been pretty expensive. And so the model that we’ve gone to and working with these insurers, allowing them to subsidize it, we’re actually seeing where 60 to 70 percent of our customers are coming off of pen and paper. And then you have another 30 percent who are transitioning over to our current system. But if they’re on a platform, they’ve been using one for quite some time, you know, we don’t, we’re not here to rip or replace, right? We actually want to integrate into that platform, connected into Helix Prevent, because that data is equally as available to us as it is coming out of our system. We think of Helix CMS as much like Medicaid, right? It’s available to everybody. If you want it, it’s there. But if you need something super specialized, right? So if you’re in like manufacturing, healthcare you know, equipment or something like that, and there’s a process that’s been built over 30 years, you’re gonna want to stay on that.

And then we orchestrate all of that to come together. And then from there, we work back with the insurance company to gather that data. We have a huge product market fit with, as you can imagine, the the risk managers and the underwriting teams. And then we give them that ability to to dive in.

And you know, one of my favorite features that we’ve been building is the ability for when a risk manager goes on site and they do an inspection, right? And historically after inspection.

You send a PDF that goes to someone via email. And I can promise you, as they’re seeing those email comes in, sometimes they get done, most times they’re going to help somewhere. But we’re actually taking those and we’re putting them right into the workflow, right? And so when you have anything right that doesn’t go into the workflow of a property, you’re asking them to do more. This could come in the form of PDFs. This can actually come in the form of sensors, right? A sensor is really just a requester saying, hey, you’ve got something happening here. We want you to take a look. All that has to get put into the workflow, into a work order, assigned to somebody, and we automate all of that and it essentially creates a feedback loop that helps with not only compliance, but allows the insurer to figure out what’s going on and where they can step in to substantially help with efficiency and time.

Pete Miller [13:46]: So we talked a little bit about email and different types of data. So what can you just elaborate a little on what kind of data are insurance our insurers able to see? And how does that change how they think about risk selection?

Jon DeWald [13:59]: So now insurance companies are able to see operational data, right? So these are maintenance activities in real time, asset conditions, compliance, preventive scheduling, execution rates, capital projects planning, right? So imagine having a view into the property.  The people who are in and working at that property. And then we think of it as three categories. You have operations, right? So think of folks who manage the facility. You have maintenance and that could be on-site staff or that could be third parties, right? Contractors. And then you have, we call requesters, but those are the folks, tenants, right? faculty, the folks who are actually in and working around the building. Everyone’s working to support it. And that digital twin that we’ve created gives you the best snapshot that you can have into what’s happening real time. And that allows us to fundamentally change what underwriting is seeing. but not only that, it allows the risk managers to be able to get in and be substantially impactful, right?

Because when you have this type of data, you’re able to you know you’re able to actually make informed decisions instead of, you know, picking who’s got the biggest premium or who had the biggest loss, right? now you can be extremely strategic. And, you know, and there’s this is there’s a benefit to this, right? So obviously when this is distributed and subsidized some or all through the insurer, there’s a massive incentive for properties to utilize it. Right. And at the same time, there’s this there’s this moment that we see happening in this, let’s call the sharing of data, where the properties want to share it because they want to know what they can do better, right? They want to be able to improve their behavior. They want to understand what is the things that that the insurance companies are looking for, right? What are their concerns? The more that they understand that, the more they can improve themselves.

Ultimately, they hope that that that is a financial impact to them. But what’s more important than a cost savings, which is important, is to reduce the escalation of costs, right? And so this this moment here where everyone’s looking at this data, this unique set that’s been that hasn’t that’s been available, just hasn’t been organized in a way and delivered to insured, is really going to drive substantial change, we believe, not only with you know where you look at risk and how you price it. But ultimately too, what can insurers do to be impactful? And I mean seriously impactful with their policyholders to help reduce risk and build an incredible partnership between the two of them.

Pete Miller [16:38]: So let’s talk about that impact for a little, because I think r risk managers often view maintenance as a property specific concern, right? So you’ve talked about how a single piece of equipment like a boiler or fire system can trigger really a whole bunch, like a cascade of claims across different lines, property, GL, workers comp, all at the same time. So can you sort of give us a picture for us about that and explain why traditional insurance model models struggle with this cascading risk?

Jon DeWald [17:05]: A single failure rarely stays isolated. And you know, I would think of, you know, think of a boiler system, maybe, right? Or, you know, you could say slips, trips, and falls, but maybe, you know, let’s say boiler HVAC, right? It can trigger an equipment breakdown or a property claim. But then you go right into general liability, workers’ comp claim, and that’s before you even factor in business interruption. And so think about the problem in the insurance side, right? The property is structured in silos. You know, so insurers look at it based on what they’re covering, right? What their concerns are, but fundamentally, that’s not how business is operating, right? The building is one core system. And what I tell my team all the time, and why I love maintenance is no one competes, right? There’s everyone is literally globally working to try and solve these problems together at the property level. And so they are one system. And so while insurers are analyzing risk in pieces, right, the losses are systemic, that disconnect is why that cascading risk is so hard to prevent. And so that’s exactly what we’re solving, right? So the first time, when you give insurers one system, right, one data source, one view of risk across all those silos, it enables them to act before, you know, one issue turns into multiple claims. And you know, that’s just a there’s a tremendous amount of cost savings. And I’ve spent a lot of time looking at the data now, both from a claims perspective and from the risk management side. And there’s a vast majority of what we’re seeing here is completely preventable. And it really is just an ability to when you bring it forth, when you show to the right people, insurer or property, you know, it’s just a moment where they can they can really take advantage of that.

Pete Miller [18:49]: So I know you’re working with over 500 school districts, I guess, in Oklahoma, agribusinesses nationally and commercial carriers across multiple states. So when you look at all that data, what patterns are you seeing? and you say most of it’s preventable. So what patterns are you seeing and where the biggest preventable losses are hiding?

Jon DeWald [19:08]: Well, think across schools, agriculture, commercial portfolio, the pattern is pretty consistent. The biggest losses come from the most basic failures. And I’m going to go back to what I was talking about earlier with deferred maintenance, but think about deferred maintenance, missed inspections, right? Systems running outside of their intended parameters. It’s usually not a catastrophic event, right? It’s the small issues that compound over time.

And that’s because there’s no continuous visibility into the issues until they go unnoticed. And then it’s too late. And I’m going to give you an example, which I know is near and dear to so many folks in the insurance space, which is roofs and hail. And totally understand that some folks may shake a little when they hear those, but you know, hail damage is actually extremely manageable. and I I tell this quite often that. You know, think of it the journey, right? So you have a hail storm that comes in, and let’s say in Texas, you have these things somewhere around four to six times a year. If you inspect the roof after a hail storm to look for a tear or a penetration, you can fix it. In many cases, you can fix it under warranty or under the service contract that you have with a company if you set one up properly. And the problem stops right there, right? It’s over.

But most people don’t, right? So what happens is that small issue gets ignored, it rains, water gets in, it rains again and again. And before you know it, that minor repair, which would have cost you, you know, maybe fifty or a hundred dollars, you’re now replacing a full roof. And that pattern is what we see everywhere. Small, preventable issues turning into major claims. And that’s exactly why we structured this so that it matters.

If you have the right process in place to identify, act, and follow through, you can actually stop most of these losses before they even happen.

Pete Miller [21:04]: So along those lines you’ve talked about you know, flipping the script from eighty five percent reactive to you know, to work to make it eighty five percent preventative. So how does Helix Intel change that behavior day to day?

Jon DeWald [21:18]: Well, most organizations are stuck in a cycle of reactive. I mean, it is just the nature of the business, especially when you’re running on pen and paper. If something breaks, you fix it and you move on. You know, I think of another story that I see time and time again is, you know, you’re walking you’re walking from one end of the school to another, and along that you’ll have three or four teachers ask you for something because everyone needs something for maintenance or operations. And you can get completely sidetracked. And we want to help people, right? We’re in the business of helping people. but when you when you are running on pen and paper, when you, you know, when you are reactive, it just gets worse.

And so, you know, we change that by making preventive work visible, measurable, and prioritized. And so that day-to-day maintenance teams aren’t guessing. They’re guided by, you know, what’s what’s the important risk to focus on? What actually reduces exposure or costs, right? In their words. And then on the insurance side, you know, you’re no longer reviewing losses. We’re working to help you influence what happens and what gets done on a daily basis. Because what’s important to you is important to the property.

And now this doesn’t all happen all at once. You know, our goal is to meet people where they are. And that means that you start small with them. You don’t have to get someone up and running using every feature of every part of a platform all at once. Sometimes it’s coming on and just starting to understand what a work order is, right? In many cases, we see people who just love the ability to have all of their team in one place and say, “Hey, I know I’m walking down the hallway, but instead of telling me, just go onto the app,” go onto your computer, and just punch in a quick work order, and I will prioritize it and I will get it to you. And when everyone is operating, it simplifies everything, it saves time, right?  Time and money are the two things. If you want to find you know, if you want to find the path to working well with properties, if you can save them money, they’ll love you. If you can save them time, they will never leave you.

Pete Miller [23:17]: So I know I understand you have a partnership with Harford Steam Boiler and Munich Ree. So can you talk to us about how that developed and what doors did that open, for your organization?

Jon DeWald [23:29]: Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, you’re talking about two of the most sophisticated risk organizations in the world. And their involvement for us signals that our model is working. And this partnership developed because they saw something real. They saw a problem from a different vantage point. And I think as reinsurers and specialty carriers, they have that portfolio view of losses. And they understood, excuse me, understood fundamentally that without changing behavior at the property level the industry would continue to absorb increased claims. And so for us, it unlocked distribution, obviously credibility and an alignment. But instead of pushing against the system, we were able to work with them with entities that have both the data and the incentives to drive change. And because of them, honestly, our flywheel is really scaling. We call it our data flywheel, right? Both with our partners, the insurance side, the properties nationwide connecting thousands and thousands of people and properties into this insurance partnership.

And, you know, I’m one thing that I’ve been truly impressed with is, you know, my background. This is my fifth startup, right, been building companies my whole life. And I worked with quite a few large businesses. And a company like Harvard Steam Boiler, you know, this is a company who, you know, think of the Hartford Team Boiler, part of Munich Reinsurance, massive organization, but they’ve really structured ourselves in a way to embrace change in a way that I think is kind of unique and and I haven’t seen in a while. and they recently had a leadership change where Jeff O’Shaughnessy came in as the new CEO. He obviously deeply understands risk, their customers, what it takes to move at scale.

And early on, they pushed us to be, you know, they pushed us hard on security, compliance, like all the things that is important to them and sometimes not important to a startup because it’s more important to find product market fit, right? To kind of get everything moving. They really leaned on us with that. And, you know, early on, it was a tremendous amount of work, you know, SOC 2 Type 2, all the things that you could you could imagine. But that made us better. And in working with our insurance customers now, which we are scaling across the country, those are the types of things that were super impactful to us. And now, you know, there’s a couple incredible positions that we’re in.

So if you’re a client company, a partner of Hartford Steam Boiler, they’ve negotiated with us a model where their customers have a national discount or a global discount to our platform. And so there’s an incentive that directly correlates with their understanding of the value we’re creating. And how that impacts them and what they’ve done to help us distribute it. On Munich Re’s side, we’ve been approved as a risk management partner, and there’s credits available when appropriate for some of the specialty insurers and some of the groups. And so for them, it’s been incredible to see that scale happening. I will tell you though, with that, that laid the foundation, right?

And then from there, we’ve been able to move with folks like Gallagher and Brown and Brown, Marsh McClennan, who were working in their farming book of business. And one of the things, you know, that was great because we learned the broker model. We learned what was important there. But then working with our friends at Lloyd’s, we were able to get the syndicate to subsidize the platform. and and so again, all this was because of the incredible work that we did as a team to where now we see, you know, true scale happening.

Pete Miller [27:01]: So speaking of the platform, what kind of feedback are you getting from carriers and pools that are using the platform?

Jon DeWald [27:09]: The two things I think the two words that we hear most common are incredible visibility and action, right? Because for the first time, they’re seeing what’s happening in real time in their portfolios. So it’s not just losses, but it’s the conditions leading up to those losses that they see. And then they have the ability to help act on it. Right? And when we onboard an insurance company, we have a lot of different things that we do with them, you know, we align on distribution, on marketing, right? on value. We really deeply understand the losses that they’re realizing, right? The categories, where we should help target, but then we build simple things like checklists and templates and processes, right? But those things are from them, right? That is that is that is built by them, typically with you know, industry expertise, and delivered. into the systems through Helix Prevent to the properties that allow them to when a property sees something happening in real time and when they take action, right, and when they implement a predictive maintenance, a proactive maintenance schedule, right, when they take these steps, it creates visibility, it creates control. And everyone is moving from let’s call it reacting claims to actively managing risk in real time.

And you know, I will tell you, I hear we hear a lot of things, but the three things that we hear the most are, you know, number one, the policyholders typically have a hard time believing this is real. If they’re paying for something, this could be tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in cost savings. If they’re not and they’re like, I’ve been everyone wants this. Maintenance people typically, you know, they’re like, hey, just go figure it out on pen and paper, right? so for one, they’re like, this is incredible. The next thing is most common, I’m never going to leave you. And then the third is, What can I do to help? And I think that right there is truly the most impactful, right? Because when you’re giving your policyholders, right, your customers what they want, you’re often going to get what you want in return. And they’re inquisitive. Hey, why are you doing this? We’re giving this because we want to help you guys manage risk. Right? We’re in the business of helping you manage your risk. And we’re here when the worst happens, we, the insurance company, are going to have your back. And in doing that, they’re going to ask, well, How can I have your back now? And it’s becoming a magical moment where you give them the tools that are most important. They’re going to work with you to help manage that risk or along that journey.

Pete Miller [29:32]: So, I you know, there’s statistics out there that say the industry’s facing what would be called a silver tsunami of retiring maintenance workers, right? So how does this impact managing property risk and how is Helix Intel preparing for that?

Jon DeWald [29:49]: First of all, this is a global problem as well. it’s right up there with deferred maintenance. I guess if deferred maintenance is the is the number we track, the folks who are supposed to be whittling away at that is the is the tsunami here. And you know, there’s a lot of statistics that people can see out there, but we are seeing mass waves of experienced, right? And that’s a that’s I think a huge component there. Experienced maintenance management professionals retiring. I know there’s some stats that says something around like within the next 10 years, 60 to 70 percent of maintenance folks are set to retire. It could be quicker than that. And most of the folks who are set to replace them aren’t trained, right? Meaning they don’t have that experience.

When I ran the compressed air distribution for Ingersoll Rand, we had this guy, Larry. Larry, he was probably like a 40-year-old technician. He would sit in the office when he had a problem and one of the junior techs didn’t know what it was, no kidding, we would call him, they would hold their phone up to the machine, he would tell them what to do. Right. And so all those people are gone or leaving. And the number coming in behind them is you just we’re just not even feeling anywhere near the jobs. And this creates two major problems. One is obviously the loss of institutional knowledge, the Larrys of the world. And then the second thing is reduced capacity to manage the assets properly. Right.

And you know, I’ve sit in various different associations, some of the stuff on the boiler industry, and a few others. And, you know, some of the conversations that they’re having right now is all right, we know, right, by law or by, you know, just good faith, you have to have a technician on site because of a pressure vessel or because of a need 24-7. But based on the ability, we can’t have someone out there but once every three days, right? And so maybe we have technology, maybe we have IoT on site. Right. There’s a lot of ideas, but ultimately the real problem is this that there’s not going to be anyone there. And you know, if we think we have problems now when there are people there who can’t get to it, we’re going to have even more issues, right? If you’re not if when there’s no one there and you’re not connected. Right.

And that’s where I actually do believe that when you talk about what we’re building, the imperativeness to be connected both from on operating software, connected from technology, IoT, sensors, right? Building management systems, everything is going to have to start playing a role in this in order to keep up. And by embedding this intelligence, like different features into a standardized process, right? Guiding decisions, capturing knowledge digitally, that’s going, that’s the key next step that we’re going to have to take to keep our risk manageable, reduce the risk, but also similar to what we’re talking about with our risk managers, maintenance people are going to have to get deployed strategically, right? Depending on what the need is, whether it be on site folks or again, third parties, we’re going to have to take a different approach to this because there’s just not enough people. And in the next five to 10 years, we are going to face some serious disruptions.

You know, on the insurance side, for everyone who’s listening to this, you know, a couple things. And one is that, obviously there’s a moment that you just heard that is brewing and I’ve spoken with a couple of different large insurance companies, they didn’t know where deferred maintenance was. Obviously everyone understands it, but they didn’t realize the magnitude of what’s happening.

And so my ask would be that everyone needs to take this extremely seriously. When you look at deferred maintenance, when you look at maintenance teams, when you look at the sheer number right, 400 plus trillion dollars just property, right? Property assets, these buildings that are being insured, and then look at the number of premiums that we take in, I don’t think that they add up. Right. And I think that we’re really lining up for a problem here.

And proactive risk management getting involved, providing resources and tools like Helix Intel and what we do to work with your policyholders is going to be the future. Cause if we don’t do this now, if we truly don’t do this now, I think that we have a problem where the people who have the – again, the silver tsunami – the people who have the incentive because they want to do it, but the knowledge to implement it aren’t going to be there. And we need their help right now. They’re the front lines, they’re the onsite risk managers. We can’t lose them and we have to implement this before they’re set to retire.

Pete Miller [34:22]: Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. And I know there’ll be a lot of people in our industry interested in this.

Jon DeWald [34:27]: I appreciate it, Pete.